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 Post Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:16 pm 
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I'd like to remind people that the odds of life forming is much higher than that, there are bacterias living in volcanos... granted, they have litle chance of being intelligent, but to our current knowledge, we started as bacterias and evolved over time.

If life can form inside a volcano, I doubt the chances of life forming in the universe are anywhere as small as stated above :)


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 Post Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 12:22 pm 
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I'm not sure what you mean by contradicting myself. He said populate the earth. if they did that, he may have told them to do something else afterwards, like populate the universe. The bible doesn't specify what would have happened, i was just saying what could have happened.

DNA and proteins cannot be 100% accurately calculated, but we can get an idea, based off of how they actually work. They are simply code. Different amino acids need to be in the right order along the chain to create a protein. I should rephrase it. The amount of variables that need to be exact, is a 110,000 digit number. I'm honestly sorry though. Religious debates seldom end happily for either party. I shouldn't have started it.

But squishy, just because its there, doesn't mean it spontaneously came to be, in those conditions. Your miss-interpreting causality with correlation.

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 Post Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 1:46 pm 
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ShadowOfTheAlphaUhm wrote:
But squishy, just because its there, doesn't mean it spontaneously came to be, in those conditions. Your miss-interpreting causality with correlation.


I just meant to pick an example of life coming in what we would consider an unhbitable environment :). Which opens the possibility of life forming in ways we can not yet imagine/comprehend, if that makes any sense :)


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 Post Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 2:13 pm 
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I understood what you mean, but please understand... The fact that it exists in harsh conditions, does not mean that it formed on its own. :)

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 Post Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 5:30 pm 
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ShadowOfTheAlphaUhm wrote:
I'm not sure what you mean by contradicting myself. He said populate the earth. if they did that, he may have told them to do something else afterwards, like populate the universe. The bible doesn't specify what would have happened, i was just saying what could have happened.



It's contradicting to quote the Bible to make the point that it says something (in this case, populate the Earth) and then make up what you think it might have actually said. What's the point of quoting something if you are going to make up things that aren't there. Hell, he might also have said that pink bees flew out of your nose. We can guess anything we want, that doesn't make it a quote from the Bible.

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 Post Posted: Sun Sep 01, 2013 11:39 pm 
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ShadowOfTheAlphaUhm wrote:
well... not really. I'm surprised nobody has tried to see the actual chances of life emerging on its own. It's actually easy enough to calculate. In the perfect environment, the odds of DNA forming on its own is 10 to the power of 110,000. For those that don't understand that number, its a 1, with 110,000 0's after it. There is an average of 50 fully habitable planets per galaxy, an average of 1200 that are close though. even if there is trillions upon trillions of galaxies, you'll still only get maybe a 15 digit number of habitable planets. Which means that you can reset the universe... quite a few times, before its even realistic to get a single life form.


It's actually a misconception that life formation is too improbable for there to be other forms of life elsewhere in the universe, and it indeed would have been if chance was the only contributor, but this is not the case.

Chance is only needed for the first stage of abiogenesis which is actually very probable given a planet with massive liquid water bodies which contain the right chemicals (the most probable scenario we know of so far, not to mention other ways we might not be aware of). After that, it stops being a random chance and biochemistry laws take over. All it takes is a very simple and probable "seed" (which is bound to form in under a billion years in the absolute worst cases) and a few billions of years for these molecules to evolve into self replicating systems through gradual small steps (not directly from simple chemicals to a single cell organism as many imagine). Life does not spontaneously "sprout", it forms very slowly and very gradually.

The odds you mentioned are for simple chemicals to spontaneously form into a full fledged single cell organism, given only one "trial" at a time is allowed. In reality, it's more of a Large Hadron Collider situation - where simultaneous trials are taking place at the same time - rather than a "toss the coin" situation, where only one coin is being tossed at a time. Only needing to form a "seed" and given the multiple trials at a time it's almost bound to form given the right circumstances. Now how this seed advances to the next stage, it does need a few more variables for it to happen but it's not as impossible as you imagine.

Even if only very few places in the universe had the seed, don't forget that this matter could travel from place to place through meteors and such, which might land onto a more habitable planet suitable for it to evolve into a more advanced state.

I think life on other planets almost certainly exists, given the laws of physics and chemistry we know so far.

As for the religious views on the matter, I'd rather not get into them as I feel it would be reading too much into religious texts. The same text could be used to prove something and the exact opposite of it just by looking at it differently. Just take the text as is, and don't over-interpret it into something that's pure speculation at best.

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 Post Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:08 am 
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I believe intilligent E.Ts exist. The Earth is like a molecule to whats really out there. A book I strongly recommend to read is Chariots of the Gods for more insight.


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 Post Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 8:45 am 
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It would be statistically implausible that we are the only life in the universe if we take into account the basics for life and the alternative lifeforms that can be non carbon based.


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 Post Posted: Thu Nov 14, 2013 10:02 am 
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And even if you are a biblical purist, nothing in the Bible says that God only created one being capable of intelligence and independent thinking, nor does it say that the "garden" of legend was even on this planet.
There are so many offshoots of this thread, the mind boggles.

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 Post Posted: Tue Feb 11, 2014 10:21 am 
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I only accept that it is possible for other life to exist, intelligent or otherwise; I neither however accept the premise that there must be other life out there nor that anything in history shows evidence of extraterrestrial life visiting us. Quite frankly, I think both views (that there must be other life, and that we were visited by ET life) to be as arrogant as their absolute opposites.

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A UFO is an Unidentified Flying Object. Do they exist? Of course. If an object flies by you, and you don't know what it is, then it's a UFO.


Yeah, this... UFO is a U.S. Military term that designates when any flying object that cannot be immediately identified is seen. MiGs & Sukhois are examples of what pilots designated as UFO back during the beginning of the Cold War, for example. In other cases, since airplanes like the SR-71 Blackbird & B-2 Stealth Bomber were not well known they too were designated as UFO by U.S. pilots (they were blackbox projects after all).

Fact is, it's precisely because I don't trust what governments claim, I think Roswell really was as simple as a balloon or a government experiment while the idea of it being anything but is a false flag intent to distort. Meanwhile, it seems to me most abductions are incredibly illusionary or hallucinogenic in form while every major power in the last century (Germany, U.S.A., U.S.S.R., & Great Britain) was experimenting with brain-related issues (eg. psychokinesis, telekinesis, etc.).

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