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 Post Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:42 am 
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Max wrote:
What i disagree with is your assuming your personal stance has universal an application. Either conserve the flow of the conversation to your personal tastes and viewpoints, or alternatively, direct it solely to commenting on how things stand for the majority of people (aka others). Objectively. Mixing the two can be diverting.

Wish you well :)


Unless I am being thick , I made two statements. Wikis can be game breakers (fact) and that I would really like to see community and in game elements/mechanics flourish which provides an alternative approach (The one I believe the Devs would like to see).

Then I just added a couple of features that could be ruined by a Wiki with respect to gameplay;
The flow is fine, some people may have very good arguments for a detailed Wiki, but I have not seen any here.

I want people playing the game as designed.

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 Post Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 2:09 pm 
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Wiki systems for games are an old thing. Even with quests full of choices and entanglements, they do exist and expose every possibility, because some one make his personal agenda to create such a good database, case in point DA or ME.

CoS promises more then these 2 games, much more actually, so I agree that these kind of spoilers will be less meaningful, yet they will do exist.

Having that said... I too
Quote:
would rather see a community communicating in game , as part of gameplay .....
then a full wiki spoiling every known quest pathway or the sorts.


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 Post Posted: Mon Nov 05, 2012 4:07 pm 
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It is difficult to wiki a quest that is different for every person that endeavors it ... assuming their life's path even takes them to that "quest".
As my observation of comments suggests ...
One person may be defeating a certain bandit leader, one person may be aiding that same bandit. One person may meet that bandit while doing a different quest and end up getting a quest from him.

How would you log that? So doing quests is out of wiki-dom.
Maps, as described in another post, would do little good to wiki them either. Besides, maps change, towns grow (some might even burn down) Guilds build towns around them. I bet even roads change, natural landscape might even change due to some circumstance.
That pretty much leaves Core information which is pretty much covered (or will be) on an official area of the website. Not that fansites won't grow. They will flourish. I just don't think wiki's will do that good.

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 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:04 am 
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Wyndyn wrote:
It is difficult to wiki a quest that is different for every person that endeavors it ... assuming their life's path even takes them to that "quest".
As my observation of comments suggests ...
One person may be defeating a certain bandit leader, one person may be aiding that same bandit. One person may meet that bandit while doing a different quest and end up getting a quest from him.

How would you log that? So doing quests is out of wiki-dom.
Maps, as described in another post, would do little good to wiki them either. Besides, maps change, towns grow (some might even burn down) Guilds build towns around them. I bet even roads change, natural landscape might even change due to some circumstance.
That pretty much leaves Core information which is pretty much covered (or will be) on an official area of the website. Not that fansites won't grow. They will flourish. I just don't think wiki's will do that good.


You can do with simple mathematics and enough experimentation, I mentioned 2 games, that to some extent have different pathways during there quests, DA(dragon age) and ME(mass effect). Not making any level of comparison between them, that is not the point so please lets not go there. Any way if you research the wiki of these games, it is very detailed on every possibility and outcome. CoS being bigger and more complex would make it harder, but far from impossible. Sooner or latter there will be an unofficial wiki for the game, it is not a possibility but a statement of fact, because some one will bother to collect that information.

Maps will exist too and they will be updated. All that info will sooner or latter drop into an unofficial wiki. Now if the game provides the correct platforms for the players exchange information, such as the cartographer system (building and selling maps) that is meant to be implemented, the relevance of wiki and his prejudice will surely drop.

What ever the devs do, it is important not to forget that everything ends up on the web. Acting accordingly and managing ways to lesser that inconvenience will be to there benefit. Like they said, having the community communicating in game, as part of gameplay is much more productive for the game then having players soloing content guided by a 5000 pages guide system on some web site.

"Stupid ppl learn from there mistakes, intelligent ppl learn from other's mistakes."


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 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:08 am 
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Perhaps our characters can "rest" or "sleep" and once in that state, may be able to go and become Away from the keyboard. "AFK."

Sorry if this was already talked about. I'm highly unsure it was though.


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 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:25 am 
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With my promise that i will cease forwarding this (aka i will shut up after this), do allow me to be a touch more specific..As i mentioned in my first post, what i proposed, was a cross-breed between an EQ players page and an FFIV wiki. Not 'A' wiki. To put it down in a bit more detail..

- Players and their characters, customisations they have equipped, world discoveries they have made (which are unique and credit to them as they expanded the known maps), rare monsters they have come victorious against, lore gained (if applicable within CoS's contexts), houses owned, et al.

-All in-game concepts (such as monsters, lore, customisations and housing information) depicted above are an active html link to their relevant wiki page, wherein further info is stored, including perhaps game lore or detailed history behind them. Example being you click on an 'x' customisation you saw Max wearing, go to the link showing how Max must have made it, and discover that primary item 'z' which is used for it was in fact a petrified finger from one of Morphael's lieutenants during the First War of Dunes. Extra link there, for that war. Lore, people, history.

- Additional and in keeping with above style pages regarding known or even better yet "up to now" discovered/encountered hostile entities. Further html links linking said entities to any in-game lore behind them, or their known stats, behaviours.

- Optional links to a chosen player's personal page, wherein a biography, history, and general info about them can be made public for others (Roleplaying comes to mind)

Could go on..and on..
You folks mentioned 'content', 'intelligent and dumb' people, leeching others' progress and so on..i personally only second the above :)

Once again, i wish you all well :)
[ ie just an opinion, no flaming please ^^ ]


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 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 5:39 am 
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I remember FF 12 having a growing glossary of monsters and skills. Something like that could work but it has a huge downside. If you find something unique, like some extra powerful skill, and no one else knows how to obtain it, I think you would try to keep it for yourself, at least for a little wile. Just setting an example out of many.

Making the proper limitations may be extremely hard, as every one has the right to fell unique, and not have a punk that started the game yesterday getting to our step in a "few" days.


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 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:39 am 
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We do not doubt that players will create wikis, nor can we control if they do. However, it is our intention to make them as useless as possible. We have a place in the game called the Library, where players may go and do research. The intention is to have all the information a player needs INSIDE the game, so that they do not need to go out to a separate web site to get important and needed information on the game or world.

All other information that might be put onto a Wiki will either spoil aspects of the game, or actually, be detrimental to the player reading it in some other fashion. This is a story driven game. A Wiki will be like going to a site to read all the last pages of each book, ruining all the stories. Even if you don't intend your Wiki to do this, because players may post whatever they want, they will post these spoilers.

Alternately, you will read something about a story, then act on that knowledge, and mess up your actual story (which will be different). A simple example, you are on a quest, you read about this on a Wiki, and discover that the King is actually a Morphael spy. So you kill him, except, in YOUR story he was not a spy, but really on the side of the Citadel. Reading anything ahead of time will either spoil the story or mess you up.

This is the reason why we created the Library, so that players may go and get all the information they need and want, without the spoilers and misinformation they will get at an outside site. Still, players will create Wikis anyway, and sadly, some players will go there innocently, and have much of the game ruined for them.

My suggestion? Don't. The game is designed to be an incredible story and adventure, don't spoil it for yourself. You cannot possibly compare this to any other MMO you have played, in those game the Wiki's may have made sense, and been beneficial, but they will only ruin things in CoS.

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 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:25 am 
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@jatar
Well said. YAY!
/dance
... oops, I said I didn't like dance e-mote, didn't I?
<shrug>

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If the world ended today, a Jenemos would be there.
"All the world is queer save thee and me, and even thou art a little queer"
---Robert Owen 1828


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 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 11:08 am 
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Wyndyn wrote:
@jatar
Well said. YAY!
/dance
... oops, I said I didn't like dance e-mote, didn't I?
<shrug>


Hehe, it's all good. I agree with your notion, and what Jatar said. People are gonna do what people are gonna do. Honestly, as long as it don't affect me, I care not. Make yer maps, make yer wiki's, and honestly I sincerely hope you enjoy doing it :) It's just not something I would personally use.

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