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 Post Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:02 am 
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im liking the idea of enhancing over crafting as i find that in some games there is a lot of grinding to get the mats for the high end equipment and its usually random spawn/drop stuff. Im also liking the idea of the NPC workers depending on their cost to effectiveness ratio, is there going to be some kind of potential for failing when re-modelling equipment? and if there is, is it going to result in destroyed equipment or do you just get your stuff back minus any money paid for the attempt? and will the NPCs specialize in what they can craft/reshape?


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 Post Posted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 4:00 pm 
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Heo Ashgah wrote:
Laughing Clown wrote:
Wait..so we can't equip furniture as a weapon then?

Actually, this may not be as silly a question as it first appears, what about picking up a chair leg when you've been captured and disarmed? It's hardly going to let you storm the castle, but it may give you the jump on a guard who has weaponry, armour and the keys to your stuff.


That would go as being able to use our surrounding objects to fight, such as throwing jars and barrels around. Wile it may sound fun and has proven interesting on cooperative bosses, it may had an extra complication to a combat strongly based on skills.


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 Post Posted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 7:10 am 
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Heo Ashgah wrote:
Laughing Clown wrote:
Wait..so we can't equip furniture as a weapon then?

Actually, this may not be as silly a question as it first appears, what about picking up a chair leg when you've been captured and disarmed? It's hardly going to let you storm the castle, but it may give you the jump on a guard who has weaponry, armour and the keys to your stuff.


There may be times when you can do things like equip a chair leg. ;) Trident3D already sports a physics engine, which we may use where we wish in the game. The only reason we don't turn this on everywhere is abuse. Imagine if you could smash all the things everywhere you went, then throw a bunch of live players in that world... everything would be smashed (because we are all destructive little weasels in a game). So... we only turn on physics where it is necessary to smash/move things around as part of a puzzle or situation, such as, smashing a chair to get a leg as a club, just as an example. You'll know when you can move/smash something in the game because your cursor will change as it passes over such an object.

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 Post Posted: Sun May 19, 2013 1:59 am 
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Yeah, wielding furniture is hilarious. I want the below item.

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-Sal


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 Post Posted: Sun May 19, 2013 6:41 am 
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The furniture broken by the players ought to be capable of being repaired by the players also right?
Using the broken furniture to make new items.....
Hmmmmmmm!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Ofcourse it doesnt seem available in COS but i just got the random idea......
If it is available Whoppppeeeeee!!!!!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Isane and Jatar
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 8:22 pm 
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Isane wrote:
But I think the idea of a powerful item is that its potential has a lot of time and effort invested into it. Now if people can make hundreds of the same item production line wise well then the items are no longer special and people are missing out on a key part of the game.


Jatar wrote:
Most of that is correct, all except that last paragraph. Let me explain... you won't be selling trinkets or selling furniture. Our shops are service based. People bring you items, and you perform a service on those items. When you obtain an item in the world it has a potential value. There are MANY things that can be done to alter/improve that item. This is what we mean by crafting, you have a potential, and you may use up that item's potential in various ways. Some of these ways involve using a player's store.


But what's the difference between crafting something from materials and finding an item and modifying it with other items or materials? Either way, the objects in question must be found through appropriate exploration, including the rarer and more powerful ones.

Really, tomāto, tomäto. I don't see why crafters, as in the creators of items, cannot exist in Citadel of Sorcery.


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 Post Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:45 pm 
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*** This is my view about actual "crafting" here and everywhere and why you should put real crafting in this game, you can just jump if if you like, since involves even some kind of rant***

I know that enhance is the idea so, before i suggest something... We will use material in anyway?

Because in fact grinding craft is boring... But not crafting per se... Is just that to me no one have catch the spirit yet.

Let's ask here, to people who really like crafting, what brings you to the crafter way and you don't find?

To me, i am a creattive person, so i like to create things... But i like to give my touch, to be the real cause.
Also, i an a to be scientist (i and taking degree in maths) so i liketo undesrtand and study and reserach, and i like complex crafting.

Some may say, but not everyone like complex crafting, yeah, and not everyone are (true) writers, developers and etc.

What a (true) crafter whats? Not just the ocassional grinder, the real one.

So let's start talking about real life "crafting"

a smith , for instance, is not a grinder, even that this evolves repetitive work.

He first, "fell" what have to do, he choose what have to do, he study what have to do, he plans and put he his touches (some even say his spirit) in what he made.
And then, he use his practice skill, the forge is only a minor part of it.

And ever another creative work, let's put in that way... I an kind of a dev, just not active one, but have a soul of dev. (an other creative stuffs)

So, dev is a repetitive work, sometimes... But think all the parts that come in the creation of developing something and maybe you will understand what i say about real crafting.

I say this because i also write an being relate with so much creative work make me to have hungyry for creating in virtual world

And going bake to this game world, what a crafter would do? Create, without grinding, maybe can be repetitive sometimes, yes it can... But like a said, you as a developer, even with the repetitive part, would change what you do?

Every creation work have this repeat and rinse... Even writing, painting, is just a part of it (maybe not always, but well, if you do the repeat part you get better results, and for the pure art, you can just do a writing and painting and music system)

And why i saying all this stuff? This project is just awesome, it have a lot LOT of potential do do a rel organic MMORPG...

And when come to my favorite part, the crafting, it's just, discarded.
The enchanting part is not even something like crafting, why?
First, it's sound something like a differentiate way to adventuring that is just, adventuring in the end.
Also, like i said a true crafter is a creator, your system the item is consequence and not cause.
Is not my dragon breath... Is the dragon breath...

Well, i saying to much and going nowhere, so i will give my suggestion form here...

**End of the view/kind of rant***


** real suggestion starts here***

So, the problem is grinding right? And if is there a non grinding way to craft?

The first part is think a crafter like two things a artist and a researcher, i will come to this two views and tie then together.


First as a researcher, in this case... The player would have first to do real study about the propriety (will back on this later), the grinding part would be the REAL grinding part AKA trial and error... Not pure skill based trial and error (grind) but experimental trial and error.

And second as a artist, in that case they will have the basis... But would use REAL creative skills, like choosing the visual, and also emulation of handmade skills.

Ok, for the first part, i would abort how would work this system.

It would start in the base materials... Gathering this also don't need to be a grind and this fits more with adventure type player... If i have some feedback i would say about the gathering part, in a new vision also... Thinking in the profile of who really like doing this. And not the occasional gathering for gathering.

So, the base materials would have attributes, and those attributes would not be a game prevision of the damage a sword would give, but real physical, chemical and biological attributes.
And them those att. would change the results in the processes of creation.

Let's give and example... You get a metal A, and metal A have high hardness, well, like real metals, would be hard to work on it but would be more resistant (or not), you would have too make a less flexible armor for example.
And, id you want to work with metal A, what you maybe will need? Melting it. put not go and click but a real melting, how ?
metal A have melting point attribute so you need to analyse what you doing and not just click on it.
And metal A have a high one so maybe you can't even work in it, but if you do, maybe it would result something very resistant to fire, who knows?

Ok, and the base material, would be part of a chain and everything would have this base idea, so being a organic creation system, you can even make your own materials, that would be great or a failure, just testing to know.

SO if analyse a sword, would says sharpness and what this affect, i don't know, maybe the cutting damage, maybe others stuffs, you need to research to understand.

Ok, i could be talking a lot about this, but i will wait the feedback.

You can put all your researchs in books and sell it, or even a could have patent system.


And the artistic part, well that well need a engine too.
is the same basis that dev's could use to create the items, you could try to make longer sword, larger... And after thinking, analising, felling the sword, you would smith, maybe trough some kind of mini game that emulates the handmade part.
And also the error part is not mainly because of skills, but because of wrong choices and maybe the handmade part (put again, a error more form real player skills)

So, how skills works on all of it?

When, like i have read here, you learn skills, so is just the same idea.

The skills, would limit the researcher and artistic engines (so you cannot see all the data or try all the things because well, you don't understand what are you doing, and the artistic part you canot make every model form beginning, and don't have all modelling tolls, or maybe you don't know to make a sword, but a hammer you know)

well, i would talk more later if i have some feedback... It's 2:44 here where i live, so i will sleep and i cant think anymore...

Please, give some feedback :)


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 Post Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 9:46 pm 
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Wow my post was huge and i don't even have said everything 00


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 Post subject: Re: Isane and Jatar
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 30, 2013 11:24 pm 
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Lunging Wolf wrote:

But what's the difference between crafting something from materials and finding an item and modifying it with other items or materials? Either way, the objects in question must be found through appropriate exploration, including the rarer and more powerful ones.

Really, tomāto, tomäto. I don't see why crafters, as in the creators of items, cannot exist in Citadel of Sorcery.


There is a big difference. In the first case, you are standing at one spot swinging your hammer for hours (or running around trying to beat other players to resource nodes, or prodding the same respawning monster for days... etc) It's a brainless rinse and repeat process, and once you've discovered the location of a rare resource even exploration novelty wears off. In the second case, you are going on a truly immersive adventure. You are actively participating in events rather than standing by waiting for the sapling to grow again. Modification is a part of the immersion process which makes crafting a whole new game. What would make you feel more invested? Poking an iron mine or killing a dragon and dipping your sword into its blood?

Another point is that conventional crafting makes items less "valuable" if you know what I mean. Not only can you mass produce some things, but you are also less attached to your gear because the guy next door owns the exact same thing. No matter how many gear objects the game has, you have no say in the matter, the "Mammoth Sword" will always have high damage, cold resist and a small evasion bonus. When you craft your weapon via modification it becomes "your baby" and you get attached to it. After all, you've crossed rivers, climbed mountains, and slayed demons to carve in every single effect. The day you reached moon altar feels as if it was yesterday. You are modifying your gear according to your liking and playstyle like an artisan, to be uniquely suited to you and the enemies you are planning to fight. True, the guy next door has a shield that looks like yours, but you've tinkered with yours and made it your own. It's not just a copy fresh out of the printer of something someone else has. When you do find something with a better potential and decide to sell your weapon, it feels more like selling a painting and working on another, not the usual "replace a piece of golden junk with another."

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 Post Posted: Wed Jul 31, 2013 12:13 am 
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What she said. :D

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