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 Post subject: VR for CoS
 Post Posted: Sun Jun 19, 2016 9:25 am 
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So... along with other members of our team, at E3 this year I found that VR was the main topic of the show. Basically, it was everywhere. There were people on skateboard simulators wearing Samsung VR headsets, there were people in rooms, all wearing Oculus Rift headsets playing Star Trek Bridge, there were people playing Doom, people using Vive, etc. In fact, there were VR headsets all over!

I put on a few and was most impressed with the Vive.

But that brings me to CoS. We are getting closer and closer to our publisher demo, with which we hope to sign a deal to develop the rest of CoS. However, with the focus of E3 (and therefore, publishers) on VR, it seems that we need to design to include this feature if we want to keep up with the times.

So... our design team has hit the whiteboards and we are working on what we want to do with VR for this game. Our first goal is NOT to compromise what we already plan for the game. That means that whatever we do with VR must fit within out original design goals.

That being said, we also don't want to just port over a 2D interface into a 3D environment. We want to make sure that both the 2d and the 3D experience are both excellent. Not only that, but we can't have one have an advantage over the other in gameplay. In a perfect world, you could switch back and forth between your VR rig and your regular PC setup without any difference in strategy or speed.

This will require some reworking of the User Interface for both the new VR setup and the regular PC setup. However, we think it is worth it based on the perception of VR at E3 being the 'next great thing' in gaming. It doesn't matter whether you agree or disagree with how VR will impact games, or be adopted or how fast. The PERCEPTION of VR as the big buzz of the gaming industry cannot be denied, not if you saw what we did at E3.

The excitement about VR at E3 was massively different between last E3 and this year's E3, and we dare not ignore it for our demo.

The good news is, we have access to a programmer who is top notch in current VR programming, and has done lots of it already on other projects. This means we can put him on it and get immediate results. Of course, CoS is already a 3D world, so moving into VR with it will be quite easy, the only real challenge is the interface to the game. We will be working on the design for that over the next few weeks, and get started on programming for it right after that.

If you have any comments or questions, please, we would love to hear from all of you.

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 Post subject: Re: VR for CoS
 Post Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 4:27 am 
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Since immersion is a key feature of CoS, it's only natural that VR be implemented sooner, rather than later. That being said, I feel like the demo will already have more than enough to make all the publishers climb over each other for CoS. If it causes much delay, having more than proof of concept might be overkill.

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 Post subject: Re: VR for CoS
 Post Posted: Mon Jun 20, 2016 7:21 am 
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ShadowOfTheAlphaUhm wrote:
Since immersion is a key feature of CoS, it's only natural that VR be implemented sooner, rather than later. That being said, I feel like the demo will already have more than enough to make all the publishers climb over each other for CoS. If it causes much delay, having more than proof of concept might be overkill.


We hope you are right! The concern is, we can't take the chance that you are wrong.

The problem is simply that they may dismiss all of that other 'cool' stuff simply because their myopic focus is on VR right now. With so few publishers out there who can actually afford to take on CoS, in case this is true we don't want to go in without a demo of VR in CoS.

However, that being said, we are not changing our current task list and demo plans. They are going forward without VR (with the single exception of some designer time), and we will not put any programming time on VR until our original demo is finished. At that point, we will start setting up publisher demo meetings. However, as soon as the demo is ready, we will start programming the VR support, and expect that it can be ready by the time we actually get to the first (or second) demonstration, since it will only take around three weeks to do the programming for the VR (at least to a demo level).

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 Post subject: Re: VR for CoS
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 8:20 am 
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Is VR a thing to worry about, though? As I understand it, it isn't really that popular nor cared for in the MMO aspect. But I can understand wanting to not get left behind in the VR craze.

Then again, I myself don't care much for it. I just don't see what use it has in a game like this. The immersion? Well, I really can't see the immersion in wearing a future-looking helmet or headgear that looks like it wandered out of Star Trek or something. I tend to immerse myself using only my head. :P

I guess it'd play out in first-person or something? Wouldn't that make playing rather difficult?

Edit: Nice to see that you seem to have someone in place already at least.


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 Post subject: Re: VR for CoS
 Post Posted: Sat Jul 23, 2016 2:59 pm 
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When you put on the headset and you see the game, it's easy to forget you're wearing it, specially with a good imagination. When i saw minecraft with the rift DK1, i could see the space between the pixels, making blocks so much more blockier. Yet i still felt like i was in the game and didn't care at all.

CoS isn't just about combat. There is a lot that being first person would benefit. Although 3rd person will always have some obvious advantages, if done right, first person combat could still be viable, even with VR.

VR is being hyped like a new flavor of ice cream for a reason. It's one step closer to being able to jack into the matrix, which i welcome with open arms. :D

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 Post subject: Re: VR for CoS
 Post Posted: Tue Jul 26, 2016 12:29 am 
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Believe every game has to have bugs...
With VR concept thou how will the bugs get reflected ?
Will there be anyway to remove the laggs which we may encounter and how will the VR work in-case disconnection takes place due to sudden power loss or such, like for example the internet decides its gonna stop working...

Just asking these things as me is yet to try out a VR

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 Post subject: Re: VR for CoS
 Post Posted: Thu Jul 28, 2016 8:31 am 
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devilzxdemon wrote:
Believe every game has to have bugs...
With VR concept thou how will the bugs get reflected ?
Will there be anyway to remove the laggs which we may encounter and how will the VR work in-case disconnection takes place due to sudden power loss or such, like for example the internet decides its gonna stop working...

Just asking these things as me is yet to try out a VR


There is no difference between playing a monitor game and a VR headset game when there is a power loss or internet loss, the game stops in either case. Take off the headset and wait for your internet to come on again.

As for lag... this is not an issue anymore, not if you have the proper PC rig. Talking to a programmer who is an expert in VR, he notes that the lag is currently only 20 milisaconds.

There are other issues, motion sickness being the top of the list, but these other ones are not a problem.

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 Post subject: Re: VR for CoS
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 1:40 am 
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Conceptually I cannot fathom a situation where one viewpoint mode does not have a gameplay advantage over the other.

3rd person > 1st person because of peripheral vision and AoE aiming. I'm playing Elder Scrolls Online right now, and it has excellent 1st person support. 0% of my guild uses it. It's simply too hard to aim abilities, see threats from the side, etc. The only way I can see to fix it is by only allowing 1st person.

However, VR > 1st person, because in VR it's easier to turn your head and look around, whereas in 1st person you have to use your keyboard or mouse to look around. The VR headset effectively gives you more "buttons" that allow you to alter your vision, giving it an advantage over 1st person.

If you do 3rd person VR, which I know is possible, you lose a lot of the advantages (immersion, etc.) inherent in VR. Why even have it at that point?

You guys are the professional developers, but I just can't wrap my head around these things existing in equilibrium. One WILL be better than the others. Whether this is actually a problem is another issue, you could just accept one as superior and let people do their thing.

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 Post subject: Re: VR for CoS
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 7:08 am 
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Quote:
One WILL be better than the others.

I see why this matters in PvP, but for me PvP never was the main aspect of CoS. In PvE I can se myself using VR just because it's more fun to play than 3rd person even if I can controll the 3rd person mode better. This mainly depends on the implementation of VR, but well getting goodcontrols for multiple modes would require more time to develop.

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 Post subject: Re: VR for CoS
 Post Posted: Tue Aug 09, 2016 9:25 am 
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Conceptually I cannot fathom a situation where one viewpoint mode does not have a gameplay advantage over the other.

Answer: Even with what I'm about to say, there might be slight differences.

3rd person > 1st person because of peripheral vision and AoE aiming. I'm playing Elder Scrolls Online right now, and it has excellent 1st person support. 0% of my guild uses it. It's simply too hard to aim abilities, see threats from the side, etc. The only way I can see to fix it is by only allowing 1st person.

Answer: We don't show you monsters you cannot see with your 'eyes' while in 3rd person, so that negates much of the advantage of 3rd Person.

However, VR > 1st person, because in VR it's easier to turn your head and look around, whereas in 1st person you have to use your keyboard or mouse to look around. The VR headset effectively gives you more "buttons" that allow you to alter your vision, giving it an advantage over 1st person.

Answer: I have to disagree with the advantage of turning your head, it is slower than using your mouse. Now, if you use a controller or keyboard, that is slower.

If you do 3rd person VR, which I know is possible, you lose a lot of the advantages (immersion, etc.) inherent in VR. Why even have it at that point?

Answer: The main reason to have 3rd person in VR is to avoid motion sickness. While doing fast moving elements, like riding a horse, you switch to 3rd person to avoid motion sickness. As soon as you are exploring an environment (a room, dungeon, etc.) you switch to VR for the added experience.

You guys are the professional developers, but I just can't wrap my head around these things existing in equilibrium. One WILL be better than the others. Whether this is actually a problem is another issue, you could just accept one as superior and let people do their thing.

My answer to this is simply that it isn't always about what is better, but what is more enjoyable at a given time. Sometimes 3rd person VR is better to avoid motion sickness, sometimes 1st Person VR is better to explore and at other times, a 2D monitor is better for less fatigue in wearing a contraption on your head for long periods. In CoS, you can change to the method you want for the situation at hand.

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