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 Post Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 6:56 pm 
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no no, that is indeed my misunderstanding :)
I did not blame you, not in the slightest, not for what you are implying; do read what i wrote again should you feel i am back pedalling now, you have misread my comments in the past as well :)

It was my misunderstanding..utterly..what i was saying is that it is was caused by the -impression- i originally gathered -based- on what little can be read on the home page. Should you have noticed, i moved on to say how, like me, it appears that it is a phenomenon common to others as well, one that one may glimpse simply by reading the kind of questions people ask once they get 'a' first impression of the game. Remember the people in mmorpg.com thinking it was a free roaming ala-old chool sandbox mmo? In their questions? That's one example. I thought that too, but don't focus on this one, it is as i just said just a one example/symptom if you like.

In regards to the dissecting, did your way of monitoring the number of people having watched that vid include external sites? I didn't watch it from the KS page did you know that? Not once..i saw it on an MMO site that posted the news. Would that be counted in as well? Additionally (editing post for this), could you know about all the other people that may have watched it non-logged/non-registered at all in and simply just left again? Anyway, if so, sad fact..i'd rather it was a point of miscommunication than mere lack of awareness, hard to beat that; Best we can do is make posts..

Now in regards to things still standing..of course they do;
But that is a different can of worms, for different a forum category, as, -precisely- because they are, other questions arise. Either way, i'd dare say you are being too defensive, whatever my remarks now or in the past, i'd think i have certainly never doubted you. On the contrary :)


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 Post Posted: Wed Feb 27, 2013 7:02 pm 
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here, quoting my own self for crying out loud ^^

reading Philip's notes and forum replies however has shown me that i was quite wrong, at least in some subjects


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 Post Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 9:00 am 
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I was not being defensive so much as making sure the record was clear. I wanted no misconceptions that we have not always (a) told the truth, and (b) stuck to what we have said.

Other than that the rest of the conversation was just about your opinion on the video. We only have the statistics we have, meaning, KS tracks each time the video is watched by someone, and it also tracks (of course) who donates. Our percentages were high.

The decision to make the video amusing was taken from another game project that had no prior games (rare), and did well. They did a similarly amusing video, which due to it's amusement factor got spread around the net, and they picked up $600,000. It was the closest to our game, a sword battle game, though not an MMO.

Really, part of the problem is that we ARE an MMO, and people have a hard time believing we can actually make a AAA MMORPG, and surely not for what we will get at Kickstarter. But, the truth is, even that doesn't matter. What matters is that only 20 people a day came, and statistics from places like Facebook showed that only 3000 people during that period saw our game. Again, the numbers of people were too small. So, all available statistics show that this was a marketing issue, not a quality of video issue. Anything else you suppose is an unsubstantiated opinion, which you are welcome to have, but it is still just an opinion. You could be right, but so could any other number of opinions. Without hard facts, it is just another guess.

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 Post Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 10:43 am 
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"Other than that the rest of the conversation was just about your opinion on the video"

jeesus..right..Word of advice, because if things work out well, sooner or later other fans like me, but without the cool-aid syndrom, just like me, will eventually be stopping by.
Plenty of times you derail the conversation, you twist or momentarily put aside a comment not 100% fan-made to focus on something relevant -you- wish to point out, OR lead the conversation to matters safer/more comforting. You do it here, twice within this very post, you have done it before, so many times i no longer think you just misunderstand me. Last time this happened, in a convo in Ratskeller, i let it go. I will take the liberty of high casing it this time, prior to going again. We -know- what you want us to know. We -ask- about things we feel we -need- to know. Occasionally, people like me pose advice, no matter how amateurish or dumb it may be, on how -OTHERS- perceive or may perceive CoS. Telling me i am wrong doesn't help THEM. Making me look like i can't add two and two, doesn't help THEM. In fact it gives out the wrong vibe.


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 Post Posted: Thu Feb 28, 2013 11:24 am 
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Max wrote:
"Other than that the rest of the conversation was just about your opinion on the video"

jeesus..right..Word of advice, because if things work out well, sooner or later other fans like me, but without the cool-aid syndrom, just like me, will eventually be stopping by.
Plenty of times you derail the conversation, you twist or momentarily put aside a comment not 100% fan-made to focus on something relevant -you- wish to point out, OR lead the conversation to matters safer/more comforting. You do it here, twice within this very post, you have done it before, so many times i no longer think you just misunderstand me. Last time this happened, in a convo in Ratskeller, i let it go. I will take the liberty of high casing it this time, prior to going again. We -know- what you want us to know. We -ask- about things we feel we -need- to know. Occasionally, people like me pose advice, no matter how amateurish or dumb it may be, on how -OTHERS- perceive or may perceive CoS. Telling me i am wrong doesn't help THEM. Making me look like i can't add two and two, doesn't help THEM. In fact it gives out the wrong vibe.


Max, I never said you were wrong, I said I disagreed with your conclusion. Are you trying to tell me that you are allowed to have an opinion, but I cannot disagree with it? Here is my exact quote, "I appreciate your opinion, I just have to totally disagree with it." I then followed up with the most relevant facts supporting my opinion that I could, which is normal in any debate.

For some reason this has stirred you up into now accusing me of, and I quote, "lead the conversation to matters safer/more comforting" and then you claim that I "twist or momentarily put aside a comment not 100% fan-made to focus on something relevant -you- wish to point out".

These statements are both attacks. How, exactly, am I doing either of these in the conversation when all I did was quote my opinion on why the video was not the issue, backed up by the statistics we had available. Or making the statement, for clarity, that regardless of your changing understanding of what this game will offer, we have always been consistent in telling people what it will offer?

These are both directly related to your original post, to my knowledge they do not 'Twist' anything, nor lead the conversation to anywhere safer or more comforting.

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 Post Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:19 am 
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Max, I think what Jatar is saying is that we can talk opinions all day, but based on the hard statistical data we have from Kickstarter (which includes all video watches, not just logged in players) and based on people visiting the page we had the majority who backed us.

We spent a lot of time trying to contact pretty much every gaming site for interviews. Most didn't respond, some did and Jatar gave interviews/information.

The bulk of our backers came in the first week, when most of the stories hit. Unfortunately, as we discovered with Kickstarter, once the initial momentum runs out it's hard to keep hits coming to the page. Without constant word of mouth it was hard to keep new people coming.

We had a lot of Facebook activity and sharing, too.. but our followers and visitors were nowhere near as high as big-name games.

So.. we could talk about how the video could have been different, or how the art on the page could have been, or any other number of things that could have made us hit our target.. but at this point it's all just conversation.

We'll keep treking along.

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 Post Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 11:28 am 
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This was just a debate on opinions, I would be happy to switch sides and debate your side if you would like to take mine :)

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 Post Posted: Fri Mar 01, 2013 6:46 pm 
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sorry, got lost in my own work;

I always consider, even before receiving an antilogue, the possibility of my being mistaken..i am sorry to admit that in this case my impression still stands (and i don't mean the KS part); however this is a personal thing, and as such unimportant. Now in regards to debates and (re)consideration of your stance, i have already been doing that, outside this forum. Just as i have refrained from sharing any personal views -outside- these forums, as obviously they are just that, my personal views.

To leave it here, i would perhaps wish you to consider in the future that my sharing views or stances of -others- entails my obviously having listened to others. Am not being patronising, am stating the obvious for lack of a third miscommunication (it's always the saa-me :8). Passing them along entails raising the subjects that caused them. Not insinuating they are correct and you wrong. We had the same issue with various other topics. Anyway, back to scripting.


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 Post Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:33 am 
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That's the thing about opinions, just because I don't share yours is no reason that you have to change your opinion. If everyone thought the same way this would be a boring world. Now, as to others out there having the opinion that you stated about the video, no doubt there are many and varied opinions on the matter... everyone's got one.

We took a calculated gamble by researching every video and game even remotely near our situation on KS, and went with the statistics. Meaning, we chose our type of video based on the other similar projects that did well on KS. We found that the more humor and fun, the better they did, the more dry and boring, the worse. Now, as I said, it was a calculated gamble. Had the statistics shown that people who came to Kickstarter to watch the video (or watched if from Facebook, which are the two statistics we had to use as hard numbers), and then chose not to back the project, we would blame the video, but the statistics did not show this. Hence, our continued opinion based on the facts we have at hand, that the video was not the issue. Of course, if you ask ten people about how they liked the video you will get ten answers.

We also released many other videos, eight or so, during the KS project that were straight information, without any attempts at humor, these also made no difference, again not because people might like or dislike them, but because of the same problem, they were just not seen by many people.

So we conclude that the issue is simply that we did not reach enough people, regardless of the style of videos.

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 Post Posted: Sun Mar 03, 2013 11:58 am 
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Another thing we didn't really consider at the time (but should have) was the fact that our campaign was running almost concurrently with a presidential election. People were not entirely focused on funding a new video game ...attention was focused on the political stage. I personally think this also had a lot to do with our success (or lack thereof).

Personally, I write our KickStarter off as a success.

When we started the KS campaign, we had 354 members registered on our site. We now have 953. We've almost TRIPLED the number of people on our website. There are probably triple the number of people aware of our game now.

We also learned a few things, most especially that we need to bring a lot more to the table when we do our next big marketing push and demo. The consensus of the public was they loved our idea, but they didn't believe we could do anything we were saying.

So that is what we're working on right now. We are making sure that the next time we showcase our game, people will see more current graphics, and they won't have to ask to see more of our terrain. They will be able to see (much like our Patron Team I think has already discovered) that we CAN make this world a reality. We just put our noses back to the grindstone and are working harder than ever before to prove all the skeptics wrong.

Max - the only thing that you said that I think upset anyone was that we don't appreciate, listen to, and respond to the concerns of people in our community. There will always be people in the community who don't "get it" as well as we want them to. Even if we put up in all caps THIS IS NOT A SANDBOX GAME at the top of our home page, some people would still call it that. Partly because there really is no classification for our game quite yet (you can't classify awesome, right? :p), but also because people will always end up putting things into boxes even if they don't quite fit there.

You should know that we spend as much time as anyone looking at forums and feedback for the game. We read all those same opinions that you stated in your Original Post. We know the only thing that is going to change their mind is to either a) Play the game or b) see the game at a more progressed stage. The majority of folks can't see the potential in a pre-alpha game, or they are jaded by previous developers not delivering on pre-alpha promises, which is why most developers (ESPECIALLY unknown ones) don't bother announcing anything publicly until they're almost ready for Beta.

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