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 Post subject: Re: Magic use
 Post Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2011 8:59 pm 
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Out of curiosity, can some abilities be combined to produce a hybrid effect?

For instance, the previously mentioned fireball and Area blast? to make a fireball that pushes / throws things / people away from the point of impact?

That sounds similar in concept to a magic system I saw in a game called Two Worlds 2. It was a nice magic system, but some bugs here and there.


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 Post subject: Re: Magic use
 Post Posted: Fri Aug 10, 2012 1:44 am 
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MyGoodFellow wrote:
Out of curiosity, can some abilities be combined to produce a hybrid effect?

For instance, the previously mentioned fireball and Area blast? to make a fireball that pushes / throws things / people away from the point of impact?

That sounds similar in concept to a magic system I saw in a game called Two Worlds 2. It was a nice magic system, but some bugs here and there.


The answer is no
But you can improve the fireball how Much as you want Maybe it's a creat similar effect or not

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 Post subject: Re: Magic use
 Post Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:05 pm 
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One thing that puzzled me about a fireball. It should have a push effect depending on how it is produced. If it starts at a single point and expands to a certain radius The influx of energy would cause air displacement as the sphere expands. This would produce your push effect. This would also apply to a ball being thrown and exploding. If it is considered like a combustion of a gas, air displacement is considerably less so the push effect would be less pronounced. Magic should follow the laws of physics like every other form of energy transformation. Ice would have different effects depending on how it is produced. Most magic can be explained by the simple transference of shaped energy or alteration on the atomic level.
Training simply allows the caster to control more energy or have a finer control of it. I thought I'd bring this up because the game is breaking new ground in gaming so why not add a bit of physics to magic instead of doing the current perceptions of how magic reacts with out a thought of what the secondary effects are. Just my two copper on magic.

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 Post subject: Re: Magic use
 Post Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 10:20 am 
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Don't confuse an explosion, which is a chemical conversion (physical) that releases energy AND converts solids to gasses (which causes the "push-back). Magic is a form of energy. Converting one type of energy into another may or may not cause the formation of compacted gasses. It might just cause heat and light. If that is the case, no push-back.

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 Post subject: Re: Magic use
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 12:48 pm 
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Wyndyn wrote:
Don't confuse an explosion, which is a chemical conversion (physical) that releases energy AND converts solids to gasses (which causes the "push-back). Magic is a form of energy. Converting one type of energy into another may or may not cause the formation of compacted gasses. It might just cause heat and light. If that is the case, no push-back.


But heat normally causes things to expand. It's just to what degree. Also think about the amount of energy required to raise the temperature of a 20 foot sphere from room temperature to a level of a flame in a very short time. The heat it's self is going to push air outward from the center due to pressure caused by the rapid increase of energy. Put a balloon over a bottles mouth to seal it. Heat the bottle and the balloon expands due to pressure created by the heat. The amount of air didn't change because the bottle is sealed. You added energy to the area to trigger the effect which is fire. Expansion of the air is a side effect of that energy being added. The strength of the push-back is related to the amount of energy added, the volume to be filled, and the rate if temperature change.

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 Post subject: Re: Magic use
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 2:33 pm 
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CopperDragon wrote:
Wyndyn wrote:
Don't confuse an explosion, which is a chemical conversion (physical) that releases energy AND converts solids to gasses (which causes the "push-back). Magic is a form of energy. Converting one type of energy into another may or may not cause the formation of compacted gasses. It might just cause heat and light. If that is the case, no push-back.


But heat normally causes things to expand. It's just to what degree. Also think about the amount of energy required to raise the temperature of a 20 foot sphere from room temperature to a level of a flame in a very short time. The heat it's self is going to push air outward from the center due to pressure caused by the rapid increase of energy. Put a balloon over a bottles mouth to seal it. Heat the bottle and the balloon expands due to pressure created by the heat. The amount of air didn't change because the bottle is sealed. You added energy to the area to trigger the effect which is fire. Expansion of the air is a side effect of that energy being added. The strength of the push-back is related to the amount of energy added, the volume to be filled, and the rate if temperature change.


Quite correct, but the expansion of a gas that is already a gas is minimal compared to the expansion of a gas that has changed states .... in other words, more likely to make a "pop" than a push. I did however leave open the option that magical energy could cause a chemical explosion.

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 Post subject: Re: Magic use
 Post Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 10:20 pm 
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The reason why most games don't use physics like that because of the calculations required. While a simple explosion's physics may not be too terrible, you have to account for many people all using real physics in different ways at the same or near same time and transition based on those calculations. It can get really messy.. somehow nature handles it flawlessly :)

You also can start running into some wacky things with terrain and other geometry/objects when randomly flinging people around like a ragdoll.

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 Post subject: Re: Magic use
 Post Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:46 am 
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Just sayin', magic fireballs don't necessarily have a "push back" connected with them. Every system handles that type of thing different. Since there is no "magic" to compare to, it is open to the designer's interpretation.
For me, as long as AoE affect ALL within the effect the same, I'll be content. No making an explosion that ONLY affects the enemy!

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 Post subject: Re: Magic use
 Post Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 2:13 am 
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Morphael wrote:
The reason why most games don't use physics like that because of the calculations required. While a simple explosion's physics may not be too terrible, you have to account for many people all using real physics in different ways at the same or near same time and transition based on those calculations. It can get really messy.. somehow nature handles it flawlessly :)

I'll be happy with what ever the designers put in. And I do agree that if your in the radius, you get hurt. Fughters will have to learn not to charge in just as the mage casts a fireball. And then blame the mage for hitting them. I've lost count at the number of times I've seen that happen, and it's still funny when I'm the mage.

You also can start running into some wacky things with terrain and other geometry/objects when randomly flinging people around like a ragdoll.


Boom, weeeee, splat, (GM come get me out of the wall please.) :shock: :roll: :lol:
We lose more fighters that way. :?
Well, that's my laugh for the day.

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Last edited by CopperDragon on Sun Mar 31, 2013 8:26 am, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Magic use
 Post Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 12:58 pm 
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Wyndyn wrote:
Just sayin', magic fireballs don't necessarily have a "push back" connected with them. Every system handles that type of thing different. Since there is no "magic" to compare to, it is open to the designer's interpretation.
For me, as long as AoE affect ALL within the effect the same, I'll be content. No making an explosion that ONLY affects the enemy!


Ah, but as you so aptly put it, this is 'magic', and so it can do whatever we want it to, including not having it affect your companions. This is not an explosion, it is a magical explosion. Physics as we know them have no bearing.

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