CoS Home    Cos FAQ    Register CoS    Register    Login    Forum    Forum FAQ

Board index » Citadel of Sorcery General Discussions » Game Play




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 40 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next
Author Message
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 9:22 am 
Offline
Lead Designer
Lead Designer
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:00 am
Posts: 1876
Hyperjudge wrote:
Yeah, but in Eve, most of the modules, ships and things in between are player-crafted by industrialists pilots. From what I understand, we will not have as much control over industrialism in CoS.


Actually, players will make almost all of the equipment in CoS. However, they will not be able to mass produce it. What we mean is that a player creates a particular magic sword, but it is not done via a recipe, they cannot make another one quickly. Each item takes time and effort to create, each is hand done, with a certain amount of Crafting by Adventure required for the best kinds of items. This makes it hard to flood the market with a particular kind of item, and each item has it's own value that must be judged.

I'll be doing a talk on the details of this system on one of the Patron Team upcoming Webcasts (read about this Nov. 9th on our web site).

_________________
Remember, patience is a virtue, kill them later. - Poison: from Cathexis: Conspirator's Coin.
http://www.philipblood.com


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:05 am 
Offline
Producer
Producer
User avatar

Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2011 9:00 am
Posts: 352
Dragonhand wrote:
The only part I don't like is the traditional AH. I would ban it for good since it can have a strong influence and corrupting power over the economy. Free market systems like the AH are utopias, those never work.

I'll wait to see if the other systems can control the AH or if in the end the AH will end up controlling the economy.


While we've shared some details, there are some major ones we aren't talking about until Alpha which touches on this.

The down side of removing an AH system completely is some people don't have the time to either attend live auctions or spam WTS messages in the Citadel. For those people, it's going to be there.

If you don't want to use it, that's okay... but we're trying to offer as much to players as we can and not take useful systems away.

Secret World didn't have any AH for over a month and it was a nightmare selling and buying things. Those who did gather in Agartha was met with unbelievable spam.

_________________
"It's like no other system you've seen before." - Me


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:33 am 
Offline
Patron Scribe
Patron Scribe
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:40 am
Posts: 349
Location: MA
Remember EQ1 when they started the Bazaar? Player run booths that you could set up shop, but for a while it was the only area allowed for Trade Channel. Unless you had an addon to read the spam it was impossible!

_________________
If the world ended today, a Jenemos would be there.
"All the world is queer save thee and me, and even thou art a little queer"
---Robert Owen 1828


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Tue Nov 06, 2012 2:02 pm 
Offline
Fallen Hero
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:31 pm
Posts: 124
Morphael wrote:
While we've shared some details, there are some major ones we aren't talking about until Alpha which touches on this.

The down side of removing an AH system completely is some people don't have the time to either attend live auctions or spam WTS messages in the Citadel. For those people, it's going to be there.

If you don't want to use it, that's okay... but we're trying to offer as much to players as we can and not take useful systems away.

Secret World didn't have any AH for over a month and it was a nightmare selling and buying things. Those who did gather in Agartha was met with unbelievable spam.


I suffered the same in FF-XIV they have now a pseudo AH, the player hire a shopkeeper and the players can search items like an AH but need to move to the shopkeeper inside a big hall, it is kind of messy some times, but because the markets are separated in 3 different regions we get so see some interesting differences in prices.

I hope your "countermeasures" can control the AH negative effects, if not... it will not be any worst then what we have already, and way better then no AH at all. We are between the line of great and good, so no worries.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 3:58 pm 
Offline
Citadel Guardian

Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2012 3:38 pm
Posts: 41
Location: Vitória, ES, Brazil
Since the circulation of items has been touched upon, what about the circulation of money.

The normal way of regulating the in game inflation is to have gold sinks, normally in the form of high end optional items and merchants buying for less than they sell, but I can imagine the economy in CoS might very well be more alive. Since those merchants will have their lives, I could imagine a situation (or several) in which cash they get gets back into the economy.

Of course, historically in the actual world, tributes measured in hundreds of kilograms of gold per year have been paid, and gold moved from place to place, making it more or less valuable in different areas.

So, all this is a long way of asking how gold inflation will be managed, assuming it's not part of a system that can't be talked about yet. With the large amount of customization in items, devaluing of items will be hard to do...everyone will want the one that's perfect for them. Cold hard cash, on the other hand, is the same for everyone, and in a living world, I can imagine it might be a challenge to get it right...assuming the NPC's that get money don't make it disappear.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2012 4:22 pm 
Offline
Patron Scribe
Patron Scribe
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:40 am
Posts: 349
Location: MA
NPCs in this game have lives though. They buy cheap, sell higher, just like a normal businessman. They go out and have a couple drinks (spend locally), rent their property (only rich merchants might actually OWN property) and pay taxes back to the Citadel.
That's not necessarily a money sink, it's reality. When it is intentionally overblown to force you to spend an unproportional amount compared to what you make it might be a money sink. So, if you want realistic costs, a player can expect "realistic" income levels.
It might even force a player (heaven forbid) to live within his/her means!
/gasp
/faint

_________________
If the world ended today, a Jenemos would be there.
"All the world is queer save thee and me, and even thou art a little queer"
---Robert Owen 1828


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2012 8:10 pm 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator

Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2011 12:47 pm
Posts: 812
Mattrellen wrote:
Since the circulation of items has been touched upon, what about the circulation of money.

The normal way of regulating the in game inflation is to have gold sinks, normally in the form of high end optional items and merchants buying for less than they sell, but I can imagine the economy in CoS might very well be more alive. Since those merchants will have their lives, I could imagine a situation (or several) in which cash they get gets back into the economy.

Of course, historically in the actual world, tributes measured in hundreds of kilograms of gold per year have been paid, and gold moved from place to place, making it more or less valuable in different areas.

So, all this is a long way of asking how gold inflation will be managed, assuming it's not part of a system that can't be talked about yet. With the large amount of customization in items, devaluing of items will be hard to do...everyone will want the one that's perfect for them. Cold hard cash, on the other hand, is the same for everyone, and in a living world, I can imagine it might be a challenge to get it right...assuming the NPC's that get money don't make it disappear.


It has been mentioned that the way NPCs in game are generated limits the , or should limit the normal gold rush scenarios as it may be preferable to hunt down reagents or items to improve your personal items.

I have a feeling that the customisation process and modding will be the sink. With everything that has been said about shops providing sevices and story and adventure being very innovative in that it should vary a lot and be fun, rulling the world with price fixing won't work in CoS.

I also have a feeling the Economy will be based on items with potentical and what you can socket into these items . A lot of people in my view will be holding onto the raw materials and using this part of gameplay to provide the big adventures.

I am sure it was mentioned items can be destoryed and some of the enhancements re-used, so when you do find higher potential items you don't loose everything, this will also be a sink.

_________________
The Signs are in the sky.

Look Down.....


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 3:33 am 
Offline
Patron Scribe
Patron Scribe
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 30, 2012 1:30 am
Posts: 125
A touchy subject.. :)

The last two posts touch on it from a realistic point of view, but i would have to say that history has shown otherwise..you can have as many gold/time sinks you like, prices may still go wild.

- supply and demand has never worked for MMOs, let us be honest. Game has been running for 'x' number of years, and yet tier 1 leather is 400% more expensive than it was at launch. Even though the supply has also quadrupled. Don't tell me CoS doesn't have 't1 leather', i know that. The principle however is there, same people, same genre
- supply and demand has/can also be circumvented. See FF11, GW1, etc
- bots
- normal players selling money to gold companies (that's even harder to stop)
- Prices going up since people will sell e-ve-ry-thing and their mother at ridiculour prices in the hopes someone will buy. Usually someone does
- Greed of the human race being such that players see bloated prices in AH, and rather than selling their own similar item at a regular price they go ahead and post an auction for just a mere gold less. Same been done by the third, and the fourth person. Bloated price has alas just become a standard
- Last, but worst. A -need- for any of the above to occur. If you overdo it with money and/or time sinks, you risk alienating your players, or indirectly encouraging them to resort to one of the above, cause no one likes sinks :)

It is a compromise between how much instant gratification i wish to provide the players and how much work do i want them to do before they can get there (as, mind you, this affects the amount of time i 'expect' [aka subscriptions] my players to be online before they feel gratified). CoS's system tells me those with patience will be uninfluenced by any the above. For the rest, we will have to wait for more info. It is however, as i said here before, promising. Non-player run AHs could well be the solution. Checking prices between the two could potentially eliminate problems.


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 5:09 am 
Offline
Moderator
Moderator

Joined: Thu Apr 07, 2011 12:47 pm
Posts: 812
I have a real feeling that , the item potential you can get hold off will be related to your state of charachter.
It has also been stated buffs and potions are rare and hard to get hold of.
It has been stated that if you have a brain you can run
It seems to me that you will be limited as to what you can do based on abilities your charachter has and exponential progression.

I think the game is going to make life difficult for people who are not playing the game but trying tp beat it.

The feeling I am getting is that the investment will be in your charachter primarily, item modding done as a part of adventure and also services used when returning to a guild hall or "The Citadel"

Max is right, "Human Nature says we will get some bad ones" , I hope the focus by the CoS team here is to track these people and place them in Dungeons at the Core of the Planet where it will be rather Hot and they will be out of sight.

_________________
The Signs are in the sky.

Look Down.....


Top 
 Profile  
 
 Post Posted: Sat Nov 10, 2012 6:14 am 
Offline
Patron Scribe
Patron Scribe
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 16, 2012 9:40 am
Posts: 349
Location: MA
Similar to what Max posted, the MAIN spoiler of a game economy is the ability to buy and sell monetary units (Gold) OFFLINE. Lose that ability and people don't have enough money to support high priced Auctions.
The easiest (and probably the most controversial) way would to implement a "no cash trade between players" economy. This would include mailing cash but not influence the Auction House.
You could trade (barter) items, but no cash. A player with multiple characters could have a bank slot to trade items and/or cash to HIS alternate characters.

With this policy/engine it would make gold farmers work a LOT harder. They could only "buy and sell" items offline. If supply and demand works without "gold-seller" interference, they deserve to pay exorbitant prices.

_________________
If the world ended today, a Jenemos would be there.
"All the world is queer save thee and me, and even thou art a little queer"
---Robert Owen 1828


Top 
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
 
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 40 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3, 4  Next

Board index » Citadel of Sorcery General Discussions » Game Play


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

 
 

 
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Jump to:  
cron